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The Other Side
Original Broadcast Date
Milton Schindler, Milio Brodski, Tamar Braut, Laura Esterman, Arthur Miller, Grace Zabriskie, Larry Block, Keith Talbot, Helen Wilson, Jack Kornfield, Joe Frank
59 minutes
Preceded by: Two Women
Followed by: The Wire

"This goes back to 1959. I was working in Vernon, California..."

Zen is a program Joe Frank produced as part of the series The Other Side.


Milton Schindler tells of working in Vernon[1] in 1959. He was seeing a psychiatrist for his difficulties.[2] For 5 or 6 months he flew to Las Vegas on Friday nights to gamble. He won in the beginning.[3] He stopped seeing the psychiatrist and went to Vegas instead. He claims he won tens of thousands the first 8-9 months - then lost big, kited checks, got $80-100K in debt. A big fire destroyed his business.[4] Thugs from one of the casinos threatened him. He never paid them back, never went back to Vegas.

7:10: A woman recounts a dream: a bunch of men in the room are talking politics; she tells them this is really all about throwing a cow off a cliff, that men abuse women. A man says that women have all the power, another (Larry Block) agrees. A group discusses the relationships of men and women. John suggests he may kill himself.[5]

18:20: Jack Kornfield recounts the story of Groucho Marx and the woman with 22 children[6] to introduce talking about wanting.

20:50: Joe tells of working for a used-car dealer in DC, buying a used car; a week later he finds it's stolen. Joe confronts the guy (Brooks) who sold him the car; the police aren't interested. Joe chases him in his boss's Audi;[7] they take US route 50 into Prince George's county (Maryland). Brooks exits, stops. He and Joe fight, then laugh and make friends.[8]

30:20: Kornfield tells of the guy who wandered the world looking for happiness, failed, gave up, stopped to rest under Kalpataru, the 'great wish-fulfilling tree', which grants all his wishes.

33:50: A guy with a Russian accent (Milio Brodski) lives in San Francisco. His friend Slava calls from New York; Slava's mother is dying of cancer, wants guy to come keep him company, so guy flies to NYC. The mother set up a business to restore books for the public library. She hired Slava, who ran the business into the ground. She dies before the guy arrives. The guy arranges the funeral - Slava said he couldn't. Slava wants it cheap. The discount rabbi mixes her eulogy up with others'. Slava dies from an overdose a year later.

44:20: Kornfield recalls coming back from the monastery the first time, his first girlfriend. He can't express a preference, which drives her crazy.

46:20: Schindler says you don't have to lie[9] A woman is interviewing him. She asks him about lying. He says faithfulness is an illusion. He claims the greatest thing is losing all sexual energy.

49:20: Kornfield tells us that the more attention we pay, the more we realize our one-ness with nature, that the idea that we are separate individuals is a delusion. He says that grasping causes suffering. He says that Suzuki Roshi summed up the teaching of Zen with, 'Not always so'.

54:10: Schindler tells a story from ancient Greece, 4th-5th century BCE: you got a 4-week vacation; you wrote an admission 'ticket' on which you listed all your sorrows. You handed over your ticket then got to do anything you wanted: sex, orgies, dancing, music, feasts... When you leave you get your neighbor's 'ticket'.[10]

Legacy Synopsis
  • Milton Schindler wins big at Keno his first time in Los Vegas. A warehouse fire and gambling debts, being visited by loan shark thugs. A suicide attempt.
  • Phone therapy session: a dream in which a man throws a cow over a cliff, women as custodians of the sexual encounter, women as cows, what are fortunate people unhappy, who would miss us?
  • Kornfield - A woman with 22 children, wanting, grasping. (Laugh track?)
  • Joe - while working as a used car salesman he buys a stolen car and then chases the guy who sold it to him.
  • Kornfield - a magic tree grants wishes.
  • Man - His irresponsible friend Slovak coming into money when his mother goes into book restoration. Putting together a discount funeral.
  • Kornfield - not wanting things.
  • Man - lying and sex. Loss of sexual interest is a blessing.
  • Kornfield - your food body.
  • Man - An ancient Greek holiday of total abandon, for which you write your troubles on an admission ticket.


This is an incomplete record of the music in this program. If you can add more information, please do.

Shared material


  1. a small town in Los Angeles county, population about 70, incorporated by businesses to prevent incorporation into the city of Los Angeles or some other city, thus avoiding property taxes to support schools and local government. Los Angeles county has a few cities that did this; others include Commerce and Industry.
  2. unnamed
  3. He was with his friend Frank DiSalvo and his wife.
  4. making picture tubes
  5. This is the group therapy by phone session originally in When I'm Calling You.
  6. 'I love my cigar...' - this comes from Groucho's game show, 'You Bet Your Life'
  7. Joe says they went west on 16th Street - 16th runs north-south, as do all numbered streets in DC.
  8. originally in Green Cadillac
  9. and that he's 64. He was born in 1925.
  10. I don't recognize this story, don't find Milton Schindler a reliable source.