The Joe Frank Wiki talk:Chatter
- 1 Hello
- 2 2000 commercials
- 3 "Index of first lines"?
- 4 Hello?
- 5 What-Links-Here Wiki Bug?
- 6 Hmmm. Has some content vanished?
- 7 New Version
- 8 About Chat
- 9 We need a remix labeling policy.
- 10 Music notes
- 11 Spammers
- 12 joefrank.com update
- 13 Any objection to a periodic robot crawl?
- 14 Question
- 15 My First Post, style guide changes
- 16 Question about adding a show
- 17 Going Forward
- 18 Years and Order
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"Index of first lines"?
I'm going to start quoting the first sentence of programs to include at the top of the program write-ups. Sort of like an "index of first lines" in a poem collection. Starting with At the Border (remix). Thoughts?
Spblat 22:00, 24 Feb 2005 (PST)
Sounds good. I just happened past the Joe Frank Finder today, and discovered that they've already compiled exactly that list. Might be worth asking him to contribute it to the wiki. (Or to let someone else do it.) Here's a link
ddyer 14 July 2006 I added a link to the first line index today, but if someone wants to do something to integrate it with the wiki, I can supply the database that generates the page.
Maybe it's because I just finished listening to Emptiness, but it's kind of lonely in here. Am I the only one who's interested in this project?
Spblat 22:02, 3 Mar 2005 (PST)
Well, I'm certainly still interested, for whatever that's worth. Just super busy the last couple of weeks. Haven't had time for much of anthing recreational.
Did notice the detail you've added to the style guide. Looks great!
Shiro 16:07, 5 Mar 2005 (PST)
Woooo! Nice flurry of activity! I guess it's pretty silly to expect this site to be as vibrant as wikipedia or even hrwiki. As long as we're adding content faster than Joe can create it, we win, right?
Spblat 23:05, 6 Mar 2005 (PST)
What-Links-Here Wiki Bug?
I spent a few minutes hunting for bad links, and there seems to be a problem with the Whatlinkshere indexing. For example, I fixed the work in progress template to refer to the properly styled program name Building a Church.
But, the "What Links Here" page for the incorrect name still lists 52 hits. I've looked through a bunch of them, and they all seem to have been modified to reflect the new name. Sure enough, the "What Links Here" page for the correct name lists only 4 hits: the template, and three pages with hand made links.
Any idea what's going on here? Is there some sort of periodic re-indexing involved? The template page disappeared from the list instantly after being changed, so it doesn't seem that way.
Shiro 22:42, 7 Mar 2005 (PST)
That's interesting. I am no expert with mediawiki, but it's a decent theory that some periodic reindexing may fix this. But it's been awhile. If more than a day goes by I guess I'd have to call it a bug.
Spblat 09:17, 8 Mar 2005 (PST)
I did find a reference to link indexing on some random mozilla related site, but now details. Will look into it if the problem persists. (Maybe reindexing happens automatically on a page change, but not when a template called from within a page changes?)
Shiro Wed Mar 9 20:13:37 PST 2005
A little more info -
It looks like there is some indexing which isn't happening. I edited one of the pages which links through the template (Nausea), and saved it without making any changes. Sure enough, it was dropped from the old whatlinkshere page and added to the new one immediately.
I'm hunting for some discussion of how pages get indexed. So far, the only relevant material is here, but it suggests that links from a template shouldn't be included in the first place.
Shiro 00:01, 10 Mar 2005 (PST)
Hmmm. Has some content vanished?
I seem to recall that a few weeks ago I made a page called something like all_series, which was just all the series templates stuck together, and linked to it from the main page. I also made some rambling comment somewhere about creating additional series-like categories.
What's more, I could swear that there was an positive comment from spblat on the talk page in response to both those items.
But now all of that seems to have vanished. The main page history shows no trace of it, the all_series page is gone, and my user contributions page shows neither.
Was there a reversion to backups a couple weeks ago? Am I losing my mind? (It has been a very busy week...)
Shiro 14:51, 9 Apr 2005 (PDT)
Aw, hell. No, you're not losing your mind. I thought it was awesome, and you're correct that I said so. There was an emergency with our server a couple weeks back, and it seems clear to me now that we reverted back a few days at that time. Now I'm wondering what else was lost. There's no getting it back, so we'll have to stumble forward best we can. In the future, when any server changes appear in our future, I'll lock the database to prevent changes until it's stable again. Sorry everybody, Spblat 09:12, 11 Apr 2005 (PDT)
Just upgraded MediaWiki to 1.4.2, let me know if you see anything weird. Spblat 13:26, 25 Apr 2005 (PDT)
- Indeed, we're seeing something weird. When I upgraded, Special:Recentchanges broke--just came up blank. I found a way to fix it (/usr/local/php/bin/php rebuildrecentchanges.php), but three days later it happened again. I think I have fixed it. Please e-mail me if you see the problem again.
This should be in reverse cronological order....
Jaanton 10:45, 12 May 2005 (PDT)
Perhaps. But clicking the "Click here to say something" link automatically creates a new section at the bottom, and that's pretty much a Wiki standard. What many wikis do is to archive old chatter on sub pages. As this page grows we can do that too. For now I've added a note at the top of this page that new stuff can be found at the bottom. Spblat 12:01, 12 May 2005 (PDT)
We need a remix labeling policy.
Hi Folks -
There seems to be some confusion about which programs get a "remix" tag, no doubt inherited from the labeling scheme at joefrank.com. As far as I can make out, they use "remix" in four different situations:
- programs which have the same title as previous shows (eg. Red Sea remix)
- programs with unique titles but which include large amounts of material taken from previous shows (Brothers remix)
- programs which share text but not audio with other shows (Fat Man Down remix)
- programs which seem to have been rebroadcast without change (eg. Policemans' Ball remix, if the non-remix version isn't simply a mistake).
I say this is needlessly confusing and we'd do well to pick a better system. I propose the following guidelines. Feel free to raise objections or add ideas. Once there's some consensus about the plan, we ought to place it in the style guide.
- programs which have the same name as previous shows but content which is not identical get the tag "remix," or in cases where a convention already exists, a year. Thus, Red Sea (remix) keeps its title.
- programs which only contain audio taken from more than one previous program get no special tag, but they get added to the category "compilations."
- programs which only contain a remix of material from a single previous program but were broadcast with a new and unique name don't get any special tag, but we make a note of the relationship. Thus, Brothers (remix) becomes Brothers, and it gets a note about Jerry's World in the article.
- Programs which are rebroadcast without change in more than one series get two pages. The main article should have a title with no extra tag and include the template for the earlier series. Then, we add "title (rebroadcast)" to the template for the second series, and make that article a redirect. In the body of the main article we mention both series.
- When joefrank.com uses the word "remix" but we do not, mention that at the top of the article. For example, "Brothers, also called Brothers (remix), is the name of a program. . . "
Any thoughts? Shiro 03:48, 13 May 2005 (PDT)
- Works for me. I don't understand it as a huge problem, but that's just 'cause I'm not paying much attention. I've seen you guys experiencing frustration on the matter. If this will help, go for it. Spblat
Okay - I've added it to the style guide and will start using it. If anyone objects, let me know. Shiro 15:34, 14 May 2005 (PDT)
Here's a big project that will take a lot of work and a long time: noting the music in a show where possible.
The owner of this site has re-posted the collection of info already compiled by someone else. With this individual's cooperation maybe we could start incorporating that info here.
I'll try to do some if other people want to. Don't think I can do it all, though. Pete 19:05, 18 May 2005 (PDT)
- Hi Pete - Beau, the current music site maintainer, is already on board. Check out (and feel free to add to) the discussion here --Shiro 01:24, 19 May 2005 (PDT)
This recent spam activity means we may be forced to permit only registered users to edit pages. Hopefully it won't come to that, but if past experience is a guide, the spam comes first as a trickle, then as a torrent. :-( Spblat
- Well I've done it. You can't edit a page unless you log in. I realize this is only a temporary approach. Let's see what happens next. I suppose the next escalation is a CAPTCHA or a policy to only permit pre-approved people to create an account. Bleh. Spblat 08:30, 10 Aug 2005 (PDT)
- I'm a little surprised that there's a small amount of spam. Seems to me spam is usually pretty bimodal: none at all, or enormous quantities. Are there mediawiki tuned spam robots out there designed to make just a couple of posts to random pages? I guess so. Probably a smart way to avoid filters. Oh well. Let's hope the registration requirement is enough. The pre-approval scheme sounds terrible, although I suppose if it comes to that its better than watching the whole wiki go under.Shiro 02:59, 12 Aug 2005 (PDT)
- Strange. It appears that our spammer has taken up the practice of creating a single random user name and registering, then posting a single spam link. So far the amount of deletion is trivial, but it could eventually become a problem. I guess there's no point in doing much about it until we reach the point where it would take less time to automate a solution than to just delete a few posts a week by hand.
- Is there any way (short of messing with apache logs by hand) to get the IP addresses of registered users? I imagine chances are we're being hunted by a collection of zombie pcs on home networks that will be impossible to block without taking out lot sof potential users. But, I suppose there's always a chance we've got a dumb spammer using the same IP for every post. Shiro 21:54, 12 Mar 2006 (PST)
- Grunt. I'm pretty annoyed. I'm happy to keep deleting 'em at this volume, but if it intensifies or turns into a zombie attack we'll have to try something else, like adding a captcha to the user creation page or (more likely given the activity level) simply locking down the whole site and leaving it open as a read-only reference. Spblat 10:37, 13 Mar 2006 (PST)
OK, thanks to the spammer that's been editing the disclaimer page over the past week or so, we're in read only mode. This means no more discussion on this page or anywhere on the wiki for now. I hope this is temporary, but unless I can add either "moderator approval of new users" or a CAPTCHA (whichwouldn't help us against manual spammers) it could be awhile. I'm moving our conversation about the Joe Frank Wiki in general to the following forum:
OK, we got another ping from mr spammer, whose technuque has obviously been to keep creating new accounts as quick as I ban the old ones. So now no one can create a new account except sysops. Anyone who wants an account can e-mail me from the login page. No user who appears legitimate will be turned away. If you are a sysop on this system, you have the ability (and my blessing) to create new users without my involvement. Spblat 13:21, 13 Jul 2006 (PDT)
Any objection to a periodic robot crawl?
I've been considering making a periodic (weekly?) plucker version of the wiki, which will make it easy to carry around a portable version of this index and I'm listening to Joe's work while traveling. I'd build it as an anonymous user, thus fetching static copies of wiki pages whenever possible, and plan to make it available online. Of course I'll be careful to keep the robot under tight control, and will keep an eye on it at first to insure nothing unexpected happens.
The question is, would a periodic crawl of every page represent a significant bandwidth hit? I imagine not, but don't know anything about the hosting deal. I don't want to either annoy our hosts or cost Spblat money.
- Do it! And make the snapshot available somewhere. It'll make a great backup, and I completely agree with the idea of a portable version. Spblat 20:32, 21 Apr 2006 (PDT)
Hey I have a question. In the show Dreamland: Compilation there are two monolouges by a slightly effeminite, depressed-sounding man. At the very end we hear him talking about a time he forgot the location of the motel he was staying at. Does this actor/character appear in any more of Joe's shows? I like him and want to hear more. Let me know! Thanks.
My First Post, style guide changes
My apologies regarding my synopsis for Goodbye, I should have paid more attention to the format of the other posts. I realize now that it was "too much information" to coin a well-worn cliche. After I saw the style guide updates, I have been meaning to come back and try and fix the post, but it has been done. Going forward I will make sure the posts conform to the style guide. Sorry for causing extra work! Sukotto100 17:43, 12 Jan 2007 (PST)
- Don't give it another thought. We're really glad you're here, and your contributions are welcomed and appreciated. Plus, we made the style change after your post. You're cool. Thanks! Spblat 12:05, 24 Jan 2007 (PST)
Question about adding a show
Hi - I'm trying to add a show that David Rapkin is on (Terminal) to his page, but am having some trouble... When I click on "edit," the text box that appears is empty. All the text on the page (which is just the list of shows Rapkin is on) seems to have disappeared. I tried typing in the addition and hitting "Preview," but it still looks like all the old text is going to disappear. I read over the editing guides and looked around in the sandbox, but can't find what I need to do. If someone could let me know, that would be great
Years and Order
One of the things I would like to do is add years and episode order.
As this information is not apparent on joefrank.com I was thinking of using Joe Frank FAQ as a source of information on this.
So a couple of questions.
1) Should years be categories? The advantage is there is a way to find everything in one year.
2) How should stories be ordered? By sequential date of broadcast? What do we call it? Show N. 1 or show N. 001
Pledge Drive Summer 1997 is my first new episode.
R*S 13:23, 14 Nov 2007 (PST)
- I think what you're doing is great. Keep it up. Not sure what to suggest regarding the actual order. Perhaps pages like this one is where the lists of shows in order or broadcast would go? I've heard from the joefrank.com folks that even they don't seem to have authoritative info on when everything aired, but I know I'd love for this information to be available, regardless of the source. --Spblat 22:47, 18 Nov 2007 (PST)